Know Thine Self - A itty bitty-sode

Welcome back to another Itty Biddy Sode with my partner Kerry Mahoney. Um today we are going to talk about self-worth. It's a heavy topic. Um but I don't know a single woman who has not struggled with their own self-worth. Nope. Neither do I. So I think it's a really important topic that we talk about.

Yep.

Alright, you ready?

No, but yeah, hit me.

Have you ever had to be a completely different version of yourself depending on who you are with and what does it cost you to keep switching?

Um hi, my name's Kerry. I'm a recovering people pleaser. Um still to this day. I am two days into it. No, I'm joking. Um yes, I oh yes. This is a really hard one to to unpick yourself from once you're in it. So I think I did it most of my life. Um so we spoke last season about safe spaces. I think anytime I'm not in a safe space, my default is to like be who I need to be and perform. Yeah. And it's not, it's not a conscious thing. Um and then when I do click on to being like what I'm not what I'm doing, but you know, you'll find yourself in conversations with people and um I'll find that I'll be like, I don't agree with that, but I don't feel safe enough to say exactly what I feel, so I just don't say anything.

Yep.

And and so those are the times where or I'll just nod my head, or I'll just, you know, not agree, but I'll just won't speak up. And those are the times where I feel like I'm not myself. Because for anyone who does know me, like I I do love a chat and I do do like to have an opinion. It doesn't matter if the other person thinks differently in a safe space, I think it's different. But when you're in a group and you don't feel safe, my default is to be like, okay, I'm gonna be who I think they need me to be right now. Yeah. Um, I found that in like workplace settings a lot, um, especially and it's hard sometimes because especially when it's another woman and they're your manager, and you don't want to put them down either because but then you're thinking, that's not quite right. Yeah or or hey, I I just want to add to that, but you don't want to make them feel smaller. Yeah. So um sometimes in those situations as well, I I'm I'm a slightly different, not agreeable, but I just kind of let that play out. I don't necessarily put my full carry into it. Yeah.

So do you have do you think you have two Kerry's? Do you have like Kerry who feels safe and Kerry who is like outside Kerry performing? I don't like that term performing either.

I know what you mean. I do it's a good word. It is a it is kind of, but you it's not a conscious performer. It's like a you just I think it's like that authenticity and inauthentic. Like I won't go so far, like especially as I've gotten older, I've never gone so far as to completely abandon my own values and be something I'm you know, in that situ in that sense. It's more whether um I think that someone else needs something, so then I will hold back a part of myself. Yeah. Um or yeah, I guess in situations where it's funny because I'm quite extroverted, but as I've gotten older, I've realized I don't like big group settings because that is when I feel a little bit like I'm in a performative state, because it's like all this small chitter-chatter, and it's like, whoo, there's a whole lot of unsafe feeling and oh yeah, it yeah. And so those are the situations where I guess I slip back into that like just quieter version. So I'm not necessarily authentically myself, yeah. Um, but I definitely younger growing like growing up in various situations, you know. Um I think about it as well with like relationships. Like I think you know when a relationship isn't right and it's kind of on its course, but you're like, oh, if I just do this, or if I'm just like this, then maybe it'll be okay, or if I just tweak my personality here, or I always felt like I was too much, and I always felt like I was a lot, and so I would try and kind of tamper that down. Whereas I think as I have gotten older, I've been like, okay, well, this is who I am. Like, there's only so much you can keep the freak down. Like, I am loud and I I'm you know, so I think let her out. Um, but yeah, definitely younger, like containing my personality and playing smaller, playing smaller is a huge thing I've done. Um even up until recently in in certain roles, just played small because that's what I had done. And I think that that's where you can feel that push-pull when you're like, this doesn't this isn't for me anymore. Yep. Because you've played small, but it doesn't sit with who you are. Yeah.

I think there are so many times in my life where I have adapted and adopted. Adapted's a good word. Yeah. Different, not personalities, but different ways of being. You know how that there's always that girl who, when she gets a new boyfriend, she I think there's a Sex in the City episode or something about it, where if she likes, he likes scrambled eggs, she likes scrambled eggs. If he likes boiled eggs, she likes boiled eggs. Like, I think I have done that at various points in my life. I was the athletic girl, so I really played into that athletic girl. I was the guy's girl, so I really played into that. I was then the girl's girl, so I really played into that. And I think you take on, I don't want to call it multiple faces, because it's not different. I wasn't being fake or inauthentic, but I think you adapt and you adopt different, like you said, you I also am a people pleaser. Um and I'm not a recovering one, I'm still a people pleaser. And I think that depending on what situation, I still find myself doing this sometimes, even though as an adult I try desperately not to. But if it depends on what energy that person is giving off, if they're giving off like really nervous high energy, like I feed off of that. Um and I change my tone and I change mind to kind of meet theirs. Yeah. And um, I find it very hard to like stand my ground, if you will, and just be me because it it makes me feel awkward. Yeah. And I know that it I'm afraid that it might make the other person awkward, but that's in my head, right? That's not on them. I can't possibly judge how another person is thinking or feeling. And that's also not on me to do. But in my head, I'm worried that I'm making them uncomfortable or I'm saying something that they might not like. So it is a constant battle of figuring out like who you are, what you are, and how to like figure out what you're worth without compromising yourself. Yes.

Um, I think is a hard one because um I think as women and girls, we we have people that tell us, oh, like, oh, you're just being really sensitive, or like, yeah, oh, you're overthinking it. Like the word, like if someone tells me to calm down, or like, oh no, you're just overthinking it, like that is like the old eye twitch because it's like, but I'm obviously feeling this for a reason. So I think that I'm a I'm a I'm I don't like the word sensitive. I would say I was probably quite emotionally intelligent, but then there's also times where I know that I get that wrong, and I'm a very um body language tonal person and energy person, like you were saying. And and I think that when someone says something and they say it in a certain way, and I read it that way, I'm like, oh, instantly, I take it as an attack on my self-worth, like I take it as an attack on who I am, like I'm not good enough, like instantly, even now, 38 years old, this is this is where I go. I go, oh, it's me, like I'm not good enough, I'm not this enough, I'm not smart enough, like of course they'll know better. And I have to, in like a constant battle all the time, to be like, that is it's not a reflection of me. That is my interpretation, but it's not a reflection. And that is a really hard thing to get your head around when you have people saying, Oh, like, don't, like, they're so like you're just being sensitive, or like, oh, it's not a big deal, or okay, we'll just get over it. Like, oh, those things, like they make my chest tight, just even saying them out loud.

Yeah, yeah.

So I think that how other people treat you and how other people feel, like, you don't want to go through life making people feel shit, but also you can't predict how other people are feeling, and it's not your job to predict that and then to play yourself down to make them comfortable. Because that again, I think it's the thing we get told is or like we pick up as women and girls, like make them comfortable. Like, yeah, don't make someone uncomfortable.

God forbid. You're giving up your or you're giving them access to your self-worth. Yeah. Right. And you're the only person that gets to decide who you are and what you value and what the core of your worth is. Yeah. Right. It's not dictated by society. You're born with your worth, and society will tell you that you're probably not worth A, B, C, D. Yep. But you when you give away your power of self-worth, the you agree with them, and the second you agree with them, it makes it so much harder to climb back. It's a huge climb. And then claim that power, that self-worth back. Oh, they don't get to say what I am. Yeah. I get to say what I am. Yeah. And I think that's also something like if I could bestow anything on a young woman, it would be that like you claim your power, claim your confidence. Yeah. But I also think that there is such a big learning curve. And we learn self-worth through losing self-worth and through questioning ourselves. And I wish that we didn't have to go through that. But I think sometimes women, as women being told over and over and over again to make other people comfortable, to be the people pleasers that we are, I think it is a a constant state of having to claw that back already. So I think for for young girls, I wish um my wish for you is that you knew that you were worth every bit of what you are worth, and you don't give that power to anyone else. You don't let anyone else dictate who you are or what you do or why you get to do the things you do because you get to take up the space and you get to be loud and you get to fly your freak flag and all those things. Absolutely.

Fly.

Um what's one thing you really like about yourself that you've rarely said out loud because it felt like bragging? Okay. I'm gonna brag for a minute.

I'm gonna make you go through this uncomfortable extra cell. This is like my worst nightmare. Um God, it's so uncomfortable. Like why why is that? I don't know. Why is it so uncomfortable? I don't want to be like, yeah, I'm this and I'm claiming it, hell yeah. Yeah. Like why why is that?

Because we're told to be smaller. We're constantly told to be smaller and to make other people shine.

Yeah.

Oh, you're turned to shine, girl.

Let me add it. Um what is one thing? I oh god. I I'm funny. I'm you're hilarious. No, but but I I think I used it as like a coping mechanism for so long, and I used it as a like to degrade myself, not degrade myself, but to kind of like take myself down. And I and I still catch myself doing it. So in in some ways, it's not the best thing. But I love making people laugh and I love like making people feel safe and comfortable. And I love, I think for me, in the humour, there's also the realness. So it's like the amount of conversations we've had in here, just as women being like, oh my god, that happens to me. Oh my god, me too. We don't allow ourselves that space to make fun of ourselves and and to talk about the stuff. And I find that humour breaks a bit of that, and and through humour, I think that it helps people open up and feel safe because it's like, oh, she's not taking herself too seriously. So I think something of mine is that I I make I think I'm funny. I am funny. You are funny. I'm hilarious. But I think through that, I also then help people feel like create an environment where people feel like they can be themselves. Yeah. Because through that, they go, okay, so she doesn't take herself too seriously. And especially in today's world, like everything's it, everything looks so perfect from the outside. It really does. And I think that we've you've just got to be real and just gotta have those, you know, allow that humor in and allow yourself to be like, oh yep, that totally happened to me. And yeah, create that space for someone else through humor.

It's so funny. You were sitting here thinking about what you were good at. And in my mind, I was like, she's good at this, she's good at this, and good, she's do this. And it's so interesting that sometimes I wish we could see each other through the lens that another person sees us through because how I see you and how you see yourself are probably two very, very different things. 100%. But again, because you have gone through all your struggles, so you're I I'm only catching a part of Kerry. You're catching, you know, all 30-something years of Kerry. And I think um I think there's there's power in letting other people tell us the great things about ourselves. Oh, I found that awkward too. Yeah, I it's it's horribly awkward for me. I am I'm a great person. I love giving compliments to people. Yep. And someone once told me once, if it's in your head, say it out loud. Yes. And it makes such a difference because people light up. Like people love to hear compliments, and I love to be the person that gives them a genuine compliment.

Yeah.

Um, and I think that if you have a friend who is a safe space, um, my friend Kate and I did this one year where for our birthdays, we made a list of everything that we loved about the other person. I love this. And

we read the list to the other person on their birthday.

Oh my god, that's so awkward, but I love it.

But it was so because you get to see what you are to them. Yeah. And I think through that you then get to see there's power in like the change in the brain, like the neuroplasticity along with that. And when you when someone else says, like, you're kind, you're generous, you're thoughtful, you're funny, you're all these other types of things, then you're like, oh, maybe I am those things. Yeah. And then you get to claw back a little bit of that self-worth that you've maybe lost along the way because someone else made you feel small or because you've done it to yourself. So I think that there's there's power in celebrating and verbalizing out loud what you think the other person is, because we don't do it to ourselves. We don't take the time to self-reflect or to look at ourselves and say, I'm really good at this.

Yeah.

And being proud of that because there is somewhere along the line, someone told us, like, don't brag about yourself. Yeah, or you're big header at all. Yeah, yeah. It's hyper. It is. But for a man to do it, oh, it's fun. It's great. He's confident. But for a woman to do it, you're arrogant. Yeah. Like there's two very different dichotomies of thought train there. And I want women to feel more at ease and celebrate the other person. Where if someone says, you know, I'm funny, yeah, for that group of friends, not to go, oh, she's arrogant, but to go, hell yeah, you are funny. I think you're hilarious. You make me laugh all the time, and you're also this, this, and this. I don't know if you know that about yourself, but I see you that way. Yeah. And I think if women, that's just like part of the building of self-worth that we can do to the other person that I think is just so powerful.

I think um on that, my my Snuggie Sammy, she she's taught me two things in the in f the last few years. I she lives in America, I met her in Sydney, and we would be just walking, shopping, and then she'd be like, random person on the street. Oh my god, I love that jacket. It looks so great on you. And then like we'd be walking somewhere else, and she's like, those shoes are amazing. Like she would just randomly stop and give people compliments. And at first I was like, Are you right? Like, and she's like, Oh my god, but what if someone's not told them that? And those are freaking great shoes. Yeah. And she was like, You need to be a great receiver. And I was like, oh. And she's like, be so now in my head I have her little voice being like, be a good receiver, be a good receiver, because it's something we're not good at.

It's hard. I'm a terrible receiver.

Me too. I love to give because I love people to know how they've made me feel. So I am I love language. So absolutely so happy. I will tell you every day.

Yep.

But don't tell. Fair enough. Well, so um one day I will ask you that same question. Actually, I'm gonna ask you right now. Yeah, you're welcome. Um, what is the one thing that you don't say out loud, but you're like, yeah, actually, I'm really bloody good

at that.

Um I am I am a very generous person. Yes, you are. I am generous with my time. I am generous with my money, I am generous with my love, I am generous with my words. Um my father from a very early age taught us the more that you have, the more you have a responsibility to give to others that don't. And I think that goes across the board for everything. Yep. And I take that very seriously. And um I think it has built the community that I love. It has supported me in ways, in countless ways with this podcast alone. Like nobody knew me from a piece of toast when we started this, and because I was generous with my time and and helping other people out, that all got reciprocated, and I've got to become the receiver. Yeah. And um, it's humbling to be the receiver on the other end. Yeah. But my love language is gifts, and that's how I show people that I love them by giving them my time or giving them a present that I've like loved to choose for them, or um giving them words of affirmation or whatever that I think that they would love that would make their day. Like that is a thing that I have cultivated over a long time and um something that I'm very good at.

I would absolutely agree, and I think the this podcast in itself is a testament to that because you are so vulnerable on it. You are taking moments in your life, you are bringing information and you are gifting this to so many young girls and women out there. So absolutely attest to that. Absolutely.

How has your self-worth changed over time? So from when you were a teenager, like mid-20s, how has it changed? How do you think your self-worth's changed?

Um, I think my self-worth has probably like my hormones right now. It's up and down, up and down, up and down. Um, I think you start off not knowing who you are, right? And you've got to learn through horrible experiences, unfortunately. And um there have been a lot of experiences that have taught me a lot about myself, and I have done a lot of things to other people that have taught me what I don't like about myself. Um, and so I think that like we said before, like you always someone will always remember how you made them feel. And I I learned that unfortunately by making people feel bad about themselves in high school. I was because I tried so hard to be a part of this group of girls, I was also cruel at some points. And in reflection, looking back on those moments, it has taught me a lot, and I've taken on the responsibility, and I have apologised for the things that I can remember. I'm sure there are a dozen more, anyone listening. I am sorry. Um but I think you when you grow up, you come especially into your 30s and 40s.

Yeah.

My 20s were basically like a bartending alcohol party scene that I had a blast at. But I would I wouldn't do I wasn't doing any like social and introspective reflection. Um I think my 30s, later in 40s, um, I got to spend a lot of time alone. I didn't have a partner during that time and uh in my early 30s. And I think when you're alone, you get to know yourself and you get to, you're not distracted by a partner, you're not distracted by um like you are distracted by friends in a normal way, but you had a lot of extra time on your hands at night, especially sometimes in nighttime. I think we just tend to reflect anyway. Yeah. Um And so as I have grown older, I have reflected on who I used to be, who I want to be, who I do not want to be. And that's also reflected in the people that I hang out with. Yeah. You know that old saying, like, you are the sum of the five people that you are the closest with. And I truly believe that if you surround yourself with people who make jokes at other people's expenses or if aren't necessarily kind people, you you succumb to that. You become that person. But if you surround yourself with kind people who look out for other people, who care about the world, who care about other people, like you become that type of person. So I think as you get, as I've gotten older, my self-worth has changed because I like who I am now. Whereas when I was younger, trying to fit in, I didn't like who I am. And I knew that in my body. Yeah. But I made excuses in my head. Yeah. And I think now I don't care as much what people think of me.

Yeah.

I am still a people pleaser, but I try not to be because I ask myself those questions that we talked about in season one. Like, is this serving me? Is this serving my family? Am I benefiting from this or am I taking from myself? Because every every time I say yes to someone else, that's a no to me. Yeah. And I think when you get older, you care less about what other people think because your circle is smaller, because it's stronger, because you don't have to worry about not talking to a friend for three weeks, and you're like, oh, what have I done wrong? And you don't internalize that anymore. You're like, she's busy, I'm busy. Like, we'll get to each other when we get to each other, and that connection will still be there because we are solid. So I think my self-worth has changed drastically over time because of the things that I have done. Yep. And because of the people that I hang out with, and because or surround myself with. And um the things that I liked in other people, I adopted them because I wanted me to be that type of person as well. And I so I think um it's fluctuated, but um I'm proud to be where I am right now. I think you just also care less in your 40s.

I think there is, I think there's an element of that too. I think sorry, I think it's such a valid, like it's such an important point you made about um you like saw parts of you that you knew you didn't want to be. So like I and I think that giving ourselves grace, because we all have, like, I don't think there's anyone that could sit here and say, oh yeah, I've never treated someone badly and thought, oh, I'm I don't feel remorseful for that. I think that everyone experiences that, but I think it's the the lessons that you you give yourself grace to learn from that and they're part of it, go, oh actually, no, I don't want to be part of that, or no, I don't like how I treated that person, and whether or not you have access to apologise to them or not, it it's about taking that learning and and making sure you don't put yourself in a position where you feel like you need to do that to someone else again, like treat someone a certain way or speak to someone a certain way. I think I think that we can have a lot of um shame around that as well, but I think it's such a huge part of your self-worth because you're very clear then about that's not who I want to be, that's not who I am. I think it's such a powerful, powerful thing to have as well.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. When did you realize it was time to let a version of you go? Like, was it an aha moment or was it like a slow burn over time? Like, how did you know that there was a part of you you were holding on to and you're like, actually it doesn't serve me anymore?

Um there were a couple of moments. I I wouldn't say there was one aha moment. Yeah. I think there were a couple of moments that that hit me really big. This um when I was in high school, there were these girls in my senior year. They took me into uh their bedroom, and for two hours they told me everything that they didn't like about me. And um it was that was a moment that I I sat there and I took it. That was that looking back that was- What did you do in that situation? I'd be like, um I it it was it was wild stuff. It was stuff like you walk in front of us because you want the boys to notice you, when in fact I was 5'8 and they were 5'2, and my strides just happened to be longer. Yeah, like but it was all of that kind of stuff that from their perspective I could see why they were tired of it. I I guess I don't know why I'm making excuses for them. I think it was a moment where I had to I was forced to look at myself, yeah. Um, because it was glaring me and it was, you know It was surrounding you. It was surrounding me. And um I understand that those people who did that are not the same people that they are now, and we are not who we are in high school. And I think every young girl needs to remember that yes, who you are now and how you behave now is not how you will be in five years, in ten years, in twenty years, and you will look back sometimes on this behavior and it will make you cringe.

Oh, 100%.

Um, but there are valuable lessons there. Yeah, there were lessons there for me on how to treat other people. Yeah. So that was like one moment where it was like, okay, I know what I don't want to be anymore. And then as you grow older, um, a couple of years ago, I gave up alcohol. And um in my 20s, like I said, I bartended, I was on the scene for many, many years, and there were many, many, many, many, many alcohol-induced nights. Yep. And it I think that's also like a rite of passage in your 20s um for a woman to go out and have fun with her girlfriends and meet boys or girls and do whatever you want to do. Um, but I when I stopped drinking alcohol, I just I felt this sense of relief. And I think um the person who helped me get there, she said the most uncomfortable part about giving up alcohol is making other people comfortable with your choices. And because Australia is um like there's there's it's an alcoholic culture. Yeah, it is. Um, it's social, it's yeah, footy, it's sports, it's everything. You know, alcohol is um a big part of that. And um to Australians' credits, I've never once been judged or asked, why aren't you drinking? Oh, just have a beer. Um so I will credit them with that. It might have been a very different response had I lived in the US. Yeah. Um But there were there back to your question, sorry, there are moments like those to you that um when you hit them, you do self-reflect and you let a part of you that has been a part of you for so long fall away.

Yeah.

And then you get a chance to become the person that it is without it. And it feels unfamiliar, it feels like jumping off a cliff without looking at the bottom sometimes. Yeah. Um, but they're all lessons that you're gonna learn. Like you're not failing when something like that happens to me in high school. Like those are all learning opportunities, and we all like sometimes they hurt and they stick with us for the rest of our our lives because they call it cause scars. But I think you only get to know yourself by letting pieces of you go that no longer serve you and not holding on to those anymore. So is it's to answer your question, it's been it's been a whole bit of um little aha moments. Yeah. And and if you don't self-reflect, you won't see those moments and you won't grow. So I think self-reflection is something that us as women really need to do more of.

Yeah. Um and I think it's the it's gonna be a moving feast because I I I I ha when people are like, oh, I'm getting older, I'm getting older, blah, blah, blah. I actually get excited about getting older because I don't, I feel like there will always be pieces of me go like leaving as I move into different phases of my life. You know, there was the coming out of the party girl, like Kerry fun party drinking five nights a week. God knows how I did it. Like four livers. Oh my sleep. Um, but yeah, coming out of that and then letting that part go and then moving it, like there's always gonna be parts of you that you shed. You're kind of like a snake, right? You kind of like just shed your skin when when you're done with it. Um, and I think that that's the exciting part because it's like, okay, so think about everything you've learned to this point. What is the next 10, 20, 30, 40 years gonna bring? You know, like I think that's exciting, and I think that we will forever be shedding parts of ourselves. Yeah. But and I think it's important to allow those parts to go through, you know,

self-reflection.

Yeah, good. Um, I just have something that I wrote. Yes. Um, again, if you're right, if I read it for our audience. Worth is not a ranking system. The moment you accept that it is one, it makes it much harder to realize that someone will always be better off and someone will always be worse off. You are not worth more or less than either one. You get to choose what you're worth. Don't seek it through other people's approval or validation. Don't give other people that power. The approval feels good while it lasts, but it requires constant maintenance, constant performance, constant monitoring, and it is exhausting. Your worth is not earned. It is not conditional of you making mistakes. Your body is not a measure of your worth. You have spent your whole life being evaluated by teachers, by parents, by peers, by algorithms, and that is an enormous amount of external measurement. You are allowed to like yourself and think good things about yourself. You're allowed to take up space, have needs, say no. None of that is arrogant or selfish. Self-worth is something you can build slowly from the inside by learning what you value rather than what you were told you should value. And choosing repeatedly and imperfectly to treat yourself as someone who matters. Not because you have to prove it, not because everyone agrees, but because you are here, you are trying, and that has always been enough.

What could possibly follow that? Yeah. That is a really that is amazing. That's a great place to end. All right, see you next time.

See you next time.

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